468 Build

hey everyone,
new to the forum here and am looking for some help/information.
i have read through a few threads here and looks like there is a bunch of knowledgeable people here.
this motor will be going into a 69 firebird it will be street driven and see some drag strip action. im hoping to get in the 650 hp/tq range or more if possible.

i have a bbc 454 that im going to have bored .60 over to a 468, the block is a 4 bolt main block. i plan on keeping the stock stroke.
im going to have the crank polished and recondition the rods to save some money.

im looking to run some aluminum heads , probably in the 115cc range with a runner volume of 300cc - 320cc, and i was looking at a -20cc or -30cc domed piston with a .040 head gasket.
Rectangle ports or Oval ports? not sure, but was leaning towards the rectangle ports

going to run an RPM intake.

i have no idea on cam or carb size. i have read that i should splurge and go roller cam. and ill use roller rockers as well.

any help or suggestions or any info would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the club! Good to see you here. I'll let the chevy experts guide you on all your choices but I'll only add that the roller cam setup is the only way to go with the oils that are in use today. Don't consider it splurging, consider it a neccesity!

My two cents...

A hearty welcome, and I agree with everything Mike said above. If one of the Chevy guys doesn't pop in soon do a member search on TechInspector1, then "Find All Posts" and read through several of his buildups on how the static & dynamic compression ratios work, and how to stack your parts, including head gasket, to get your squish right.

Sorry, but can't provide any info for California Street driven vehicles account of the new emission laws out there and the liability associated with them-----------

there is many post on builds like this on here you may want to look thru some of them .to help iron out what way you want to go .i done may of this size of engines over the 30 years i built engines . for this build using the 4.000 crank and car weight i would used a 290 size O port head .you say you do not know the RPM. but the intake you have you just pick it ?RPM intake ?.getting the 115 cc head cold be tuff the cheap pro china heads may not cc were you think they will there more then 115cc valve face dish plays in to this his well as head gasket bore size in MLS or Felpro like the 1017-1 .cc10.5 or1037.cc9.7 as for just using a 040. gasket if the block s been line bore and true decked and when done if your looking at a hyper speed pro piston then you many need a deck at 9.785 to be at O deck this has to do with pistons companys some give you more or less to clean the deck up some times on a old used block you can run past were you would like to be for deck clean up . then its a thicker head gasket or a trim on the piston decks or another block happens more then many think . for the cost of the crank you can build a 489/496 and use the 6.135 rods and the cast steel crank will hold up as good as your crank would or better. i have done many roller cams bbcs about the only way to go. if you are cutting back on max Rpm then hyd is one way to go or limited valving lifters for more spring lbs and RPM max with a stock vlaving drop in roller lifter is 6500.rpm . short valve 7500.solid past 7500.rpm parts need to be right and the price for hyd rollers can cost more then a solid roller lifter. if you go solid you want a Hippo lifter that a hi pressure pin oiling lifter helps keep the axles in the lifters or street use . tell me what fuel you want to run and gear /stall tran s . and i can get you very close on every thing you need .from real world experience to what you can get away with as a steet /strip engine or just strip. now i must go to work if i can get out of the drive way. go to the shop and machine and build engines

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Sorry, but can't provide any info for California Street driven vehicles account of the new emission laws out there and the liability associated with them-----------

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Yeah emissions suck in ca, however this is going in a 69 firebird, no emissions required on any pre 75 vehicle out here.
So I can build the motor any way I want with no trouble from the law

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

there is many post on builds like this on here you may want to look thru some of them .to help iron out what way you want to go .i done may of this size of engines over the 30 years i built engines . for this build using the 4.000 crank and car weight i would used a 290 size O port head .you say you do not know the RPM. but the intake you have you just pick it ?RPM intake ?.getting the 115 cc head cold be tuff the cheap pro china heads may not cc were you think they will there more then 115cc valve face dish plays in to this his well as head gasket bore size in MLS or Felpro like the 1017-1 .cc10.5 or1037.cc9.7 as for just using a 040. gasket if the block s been line bore and true decked and when done if your looking at a hyper speed pro piston then you many need a deck at 9.785 to be at O deck this has to do with pistons companys some give you more or less to clean the deck up some times on a old used block you can run past were you would like to be for deck clean up . then its a thicker head gasket or a trim on the piston decks or another block happens more then many think . for the cost of the crank you can build a 489/496 and use the 6.135 rods and the cast steel crank will hold up as good as your crank would or better. i have done many roller cams bbcs about the only way to go. if you are cutting back on max Rpm then hyd is one way to go or limited valving lifters for more spring lbs and RPM max with a stock vlaving drop in roller lifter is 6500.rpm . short valve 7500.solid past 7500.rpm parts need to be right and the price for hyd rollers can cost more then a solid roller lifter. if you go solid you want a Hippo lifter that a hi pressure pin oiling lifter helps keep the axles in the lifters or street use . tell me what fuel you want to run and gear /stall tran s . and i can get you very close on every thing you need .from real world experience to what you can get away with as a steet /strip engine or just strip. now i must go to work if i can get out of the drive way. go to the shop and machine and build engines

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As for the intake I figured I wouldn't be spinning past 6500 rpm and have heard of a lot of people using them including myself on sbc. I would love to have a 496 but the extra cost of the crank and then the clearancing is making me not want to. I plan on running pump gas 91 octane, if I go with an auto it'll be th400 with 323 gear or 355, or I may go muncie 4speed with 355 or 373 gears.

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Originally Posted by bbfirebird

As for the intake I figured I wouldn't be spinning past 6500 rpm and have heard of a lot of people using them including myself on sbc. I would love to have a 496 but the extra cost of the crank and then the clearancing is making me not want to. I plan on running pump gas 91 octane, if I go with an auto it'll be th400 with 323 gear or 355, or I may go muncie 4speed with 355 or 373 gears.

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cost of a cast steel crank is about 350.00 now add the price for a wash wet mag and polish of your old crank so the added cost as less then 300. more in your build and you do not have money to add 31 more cid ? as to work to the block if you use your stock rod you may have to work the block but not much done many with stock threw bolt rods its not very much work. your intake for o port heads ? as for a cam roller hyd hi 500s to mid 600.s on lift with auto and 110lsa @050 239/246 you can get away with a 10to1 piston in this build so a srp piston 212136 23cc dome with a 118 cc chamber head whos ever piston you use make shure it fit the head chamber .i use many of the ICON pistons i builds like this cost is abit less then the JE srp brand i use them as well for hpyer pistons builds i like the speed pro brand . heads for the money the race rite brodixs are a ok head that a open chamber head and is a 270 cc runner that still is a good head stock ex port location but they can use some work. the pro file 290 head flows better and as well on the ex side if you have the 1/4 or so of the rised ex ports that most companys do this now. that is the need for the longer ex studs/bolts dart o port look to be a good head as well there more then one set to pick threw for price

I'll look into the machine work cost of clearancing but I am on a budget. I may just go all out and do a 496 but for now I'm gonna say I'm doing a 468. As for an intake for oval port heads I can use an edelbrock or summit has one as well, both rated 1500-6500.

I will most likely go with the speed pro pistons.

summit brand maybe a over sea,s brand like pro comp not the best fit up as the eldbrock brand fit better. i used both over the years . less it.s a big coast savings the china intakes are so/so on fit and finish were the weiand steath is what i used mostly on street engines intake was casted in china last one i used was not . but over all fit is better then procomp china stuff

It's not big enough savings to go with the summit one.
So I'll stick with the edelbrock or I'll try n find a weiand on ebay.

is your stock crank cast or forged????????????and what rods do you have--are they 7/16 bolts?????and bushing pin ends????

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

is your stock crank cast or forged????????????and what rods do you have--are they 7/16 bolts?????and bushing pin ends????

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were are you going with this Jerry ? he said low buck ?? the stock 3/8 with a bolt up grade is fine with press pins.i have many out there . other then the fact that he will spend more money getting the stock rods rebuilt then a new set????and if he used a 6.385 cap screw rods there is about nothing to do to the block to make it swing thru. 496 will not cost any more then the price of new crank. but what do i know i built about 50+ of them 489/496s in the last 15years :)and he wants a 468

Pat, it just seemed that he doesn't have the foggiest idea of what he has, where he s going or what its going to take to get there---I just wanted him to get a few more facts about what s involved and that he might ought to take a look at the new laws/regs out there-----Summit/Jegs won't even ship to a California address or drop ship something where the card holder address is Calif and at there Reno stores if customer pays cash they get ID'd to prove they don't live California-------------And I think I only done 8 or 10 bbc 2013 and am down to 5 customer rebuilds and 7 core BBC getting converted from 2 bolt to billet splayed 4 bolt center caps-----------right now resting, trying to keep warm--------

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Pat, it just seemed that he doesn't have the foggiest idea of what he has, where he s going or what its going to take to get there---I just wanted him to get a few more facts about what s involved and that he might ought to take a look at the new laws/regs out there-----Summit/Jegs won't even ship to a California address or drop ship something where the card holder address is Calif and at there Reno stores if customer pays cash they get ID'd to prove they don't live California-------------And I think I only done 8 or 10 bbc 2013 and am down to 5 customer rebuilds and 7 core BBC getting converted from 2 bolt to billet splayed 4 bolt center caps-----------right now resting, trying to keep warm--------

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yep i hear you ...i am down to 5 core blocks two are 4 bolts . just pull one out for resale line bored it and decked it before the cold weather hit will be alot like what he looking for speed pro hyper piston 10to1 scat 7/16 I rod s.Scat cast steel crank .i done many of the 489/496 in last few years . but last summer more 4.500 crank stuff . i just sconic check a 454 block today at the shop going to take it to the hilt. not my idea :( were i done this for this customer short fill and large bore low buck stuff .i doing a old bowtie 10.200 block that needed caps and i used the howards . look very much like the pro gram caps? price is good . if you do not mind PM me on the caps your using . i can get new china caps thru many of my suppliers but was worried about if the carbon was low in them like it needs to be and how they fininsh? guys have told me some caps you can not cut and if you can end up with a ratty fininsh ? all the steel caps i cut so far cut very nice all were dart .world or program .GM

i think ill take your advice and go up the 30+ more cubes. and go with the longer rods as you recommended.
im trying to learn as well as build something good thats going to produce great power. thats why i joined up here. so pat im all ears.

summit does still ship to ca with no problem, i called them n asked. ca does not have any regulations on pre 75 vehicles. anything after 75 then yes there are smog laws n other things like that. other wise im free to build what i want and stab it in the 69 firebird.

pat........above you recommended some rods, are those i beam or h beam? im going with your recomendation. im going to get a 4.250 steel crank with the 4.385 rods in order to build a 489/496.

I think you mean 6.385 rods---------


I have in stock Calles Compstar steel 4.250 crank and 6.385 rods if your interested in a price send me a PM


Jerry

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Originally Posted by bbfirebird

pat........above you recommended some rods, are those i beam or h beam? im going with your recomendation. im going to get a 4.250 steel crank with the 4.385 rods in order to build a 489/496.

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i would go with a cast steel crank#ca945420 cut for a 6.135 rod s I have one in stock . go with the Scat I beam rods# cr6136 Speed Pro hyper in 060 over#h603p-60 10.6 with a 119 cc head or h552p-60 9.31 with a 119 chamber head . Compstar stuff is nice and i am dealer for them as well but if this is a budget engine??? just the cost of the Comp star forged 4340 steel crank would be the cost of the Scat cast steel crank and rods.call me if you want 989-667-4071 to talk more in depth about this builld as i built many 6.135 long rod 496s and 6.385 rods engines. the add cost of the 1/16 ring pack and the 4340 crank and race H bearings will take this build past your budget?? as the bearings and rings are double the cost as well as the forged steel crank over what i listed

cant seem to locate those part numbers on those pistons.

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Originally Posted by bbfirebird

cant seem to locate those part numbers on those pistons.

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speed pro /federal mogul . i have them in stock . but try competition products .i just check one of the number for a member on here.they still make them. you may have to call online may be hard to find .flatlander shows them on line or did under TRW /speed pro PISTON # MACHINED H11P60 9.31 CR WITH 119 ... H552P60 9.31CR WITH 119 ... PISTON H603P60 10.24 CR WITH 119CC HEAD. MACHINED H112P60 10.03 CR ..... MACHINED IS A FULLY MACHINE PISTON TOP