newbie bbc owner in jetboat

Hi, this is my first post of what will probably be many.... Let me first start out by saying that this is my first BBC and I absolutely love it. Im currently running it in my jetboat.Im running a 1979 mark iv 454 with 049 heads. Im not sure what if anything has been done to the engine other than I know that its a Hardin Marine engine... It came with a dual point Mallory dizzy and Holley 850 double pumper. Holley mech fuel pump and Hardin Marine log/snails exhaust.
After the first season of owning the boat/engine which ran pretty good, I wanted to do some upgrades. During the winter I ditched the Dual points and added a Pertronix unit. I went ahead and ditched the old looking Accel wires and install a set of Pertronix wires too. When it came to spark plugs I took my set out which were Autolites (which im not a fan of) and hit the parts store. I found out there that the previous owner install the wrong plugs which were the bigger plugs. I ended up going with the smaller NGK yr5s gapped to 35. The engine really liked the new additions. Start ups were quick and it ran smooth from idle to about 4200 which was my max rpm. After those mods I found a good deal on an intake and installed an Edelbrock HIGH RISE dual plane intake to replace the very low rise stock iron anchor intake. I couldnt believe how heavy that thing was! Bolted up the Holley and the rat like it even more. The engine had more overall pep than before. (Im not sure about how much hp was gained but Id like to say it was noticeable). The last modification was a to the jet pump that got the boat out of the water some which let my motor spin a little higher on the top end from 4200 to about 4700rpm.
Ok, so thats where I am at now.
I ran this set up going on year two with no problems.
I should note that when I first bought the boat I did a compression test and all cylinders were close to the same, with only the #8 cylinder being about 7.lbs lower. That spark plug was a little heavy on the oil too.
On the subject of oil I run 10-30 synthetic blend along with some Lucas oil that a buddy gave me to try. He claimed it made his jet run better so I gave it a try. My engine always made some valvetrain noise so just for kicks I added the Lucas stuff while the engine was warmed up and running. I noticed right off the bat that the engine quieted down and seemed to run smoother. I definitely heard some ticking go away about 30 seconds after adding the stuff.
Anyways not trying to be an infomercial here....
So this year I did no mods.... Everything running as usual except the valvetrain noise has been getting louder lately. From about idle to 3k everyting sounds fine.... then from about 3500 on up it chatters. Chatter goes away when I let of the gas.
I did some research and found out that I could adjust the lash on this BBC so I went ahead and did that. While I was in there I checked for correct torque on head and rockers. I have a hydraulic flat tappet cam with stock stamped steel rockers. Single valve springs with dampeners.
This is what I noticed while in there... When I removed the rockers I could spin the valve springs. I mean that I could spin the springs with my fingers. Exhaust and Intake springs.
Is this normal?

Welcome to the forum. We'll let some of our BBC experts like Pat, Dave, and others give you a professional opinion, but my first thoughts are that the valve springs are just tired. Your valves might also be tuliping, sucking into the heads a little. Boat engines run at 4500 or so rpms all day long, and that is like taking your car and going down the expressway at 100 mph hour after hour. Boat motors age much faster than car engines because of that fact.

Now we'll see what the guys who really know have to say. :D

Don

normal ? no it is not .... sound like time for some valve train work new rockers they get mark that looks like this C in them from the valve stem s in time the rocker moves in and out of lash springs that loose will suck the valves in the head s sounds like a valve job and better valves as well DAVE ?? is a bbf guy:3dSMILE:

hey thanks for the quick reply. Yeah I know it asking alot for a Big block to run in a jet. Im not sure when it was last rebuilt either. Its a weird feeling to full throttle a big block. I try to be good on my stuff too though. I never stab the gas and I dont tend to full throttle it for a long time because Ive heard bad things can happen for long periods of wot. I tend to limit it to 30 sec max wot runs. I can get on plane around 3k and I like to cruise there. I live next to a pretty big lake so long trips are a plenty.

Ok thanks..
Ive checked the rockers and pushrods for wear and they look fine. I have some pics if interested?
Could I just install some new springs in it to get me through the end of this summer or ?
I measured my valves and they are 1.5 o.d. and it looks like 1.880 installed/not compressed.

Sorry Pat, I thought Dave was a BBC guy. :D:D:D There are tools you can buy that allow you to change valve springs with the head installed. You pump compressed air into a cylinder, then you use the tool to release the valve keeper. You can shim the springs to get some more tension on them, or replace them with new ones. Pat can advise better on that though.

Don

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Sorry Pat, I thought Dave was a BBC guy. :D:D:D There are tools you can buy that allow you to change valve springs with the head installed. You pump compressed air into a cylinder, then you use the tool to release the valve keeper. You can shim the springs to get some more tension on them, or replace them with new ones. Pat can advise better on that though.

Don

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On old airplane recip's in the Navy we had to pull the rockers and springs for inspections - had a length of heavy nylon rope, the woven kind, that we fed into the cylinder with the piston down, then rotated the engine to bring that one up toward TDC to fill the space with compressed rope and hold the valves. Liked it better than air, as on those big old cylinders you could sometimes overcome the compressed air charge breaking the keepers loose. Never done it on a car engine, but some 1/4" rope should work fine, I would think.

well it would be nice for a up grade on valve springs .your going to have to loose the ex rotators to put a better spring in well i would any ways may be some work with the heads on engine could be done .as for asking for a bbc to run at wot all day well 3500 is not asking to much from a bbc .so you need some good stock valve springs .a tool to compress the valve spring on the head .a way to put air in the head . a rubber head hammer to give the springs a good tap to un seat the valve locks as they take a set and will not come off just get pushed down with the valve spring .a good time at this point for new valve seals . yep it is a boat.. i am sure he as some rope:D how you hold the valves up is up to you but first un seat the keepers first

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Sorry Pat, I thought Dave was a BBC guy. :D:D:D There are tools you can buy that allow you to change valve springs with the head installed. You pump compressed air into a cylinder, then you use the tool to release the valve keeper. You can shim the springs to get some more tension on them, or replace them with new ones. Pat can advise better on that though.

Don

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Aww geez Don.....you put a knife right through my heart!!!!!:CRY::CRY::CRY:I'm the guy who deals with the superior BB, the BBF!!!!!:3dSMILE::3dSMILE: But I am gonna get Pat to do all the machine and setup on my new one.... Pat's one heck of a guy, gonna build me the Ford that'll whoop up on his goat!!!! Anyway Don, no offense taken, here on CHR I've been called things a lot worse then a BBC guy!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:--and I only wish I had the kinowledge on engines that Pat does!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Aww geez Don.....you put a knife right through my heart!!!!!:CRY::CRY::CRY:I'm the guy who deals with the superior BB, the BBF!!!!!:3dSMILE::3dSMILE: But I am gonna get Pat to do all the machine and setup on my new one.... Pat's one heck of a guy, gonna build me the Ford that'll whoop up on his goat!!!! Anyway Don, no offense taken, here on CHR I've been called things a lot worse then a BBC guy!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:--and I only wish I had the kinowledge on engines that Pat does!!!!

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EZ there big guy THE GOAT is retired :D you can call me any thing as i build fords too that can lay a wipping on a chevy .i had one guy pick up his engine he was looking at another engine i was building ask if he could beat that with what he had? i told him i hate to see the kids fight:D:D

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

EZ there big guy THE GOAT is retired :D you can call me any thing as i build fords too that can lay a wipping on a chevy .i had one guy pick up his engine he was looking at another engine i was building ask if he could beat that with what he had? i told him i hate to see the kids fight:D:D

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:LOL::LOL::LOL:Heck, I figured it'd be good for business when the kids start fighting amongst themselves!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

:LOL::LOL::LOL:Heck, I figured it'd be good for business when the kids start fighting amongst themselves!!!!!!!

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:D...well sure that is what i was thinking not what i was saying ...:D you know? kind of was hoping he just needed to know ?:D

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

:D...well sure that is what i was thinking not what i was saying ...:D you know? kind of was hoping he just needed to know ?:D

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yuppers, I do!!!!:LOL:

Ok since it got brought up. What is the deal with the exrotator?
It sounds to me that it stops the valve or valve spring from spinning?
Ive done a little reading and seen that the intakes actually rotate. It was said so they dont wear out quickly and provide a better seal.
If I am correct, why only the intake valve and not the exhaust valve.
Lastly. I looked into my head and I believe that I have them there(ex rotator) but I spin that spring so???

Just to be sure, I can install new springs? Im just wanting to get through another month here since fall is one the best times for smooth water and all the tourists have gone bye bye.

I have a leakdown tester and compressor. The leakdown tester is a joke though. (harbor freight gift) And yes I do have rope....been only used for pulling not towing as of yet.(like to keep it that way)

I defer to the experts on BBC/BBF, but to me it does not sound like you have anything that is near catastrophic failure. If it was mine I would run it for another month, and then plan to pull the heads off in October for a complete valve job with new springs. Then you can look at the cylinder bores and piston tops to help you decide on the rest of the engine, and if you want to pull it to go through the block, too. Just my thoughts...

I'll mix a little thought for you---

Change the springs( In a jet boat engines are easy to work on) now and run it for the month then take it down over the winter---I have seen engines in jet boats hammer all the valves up into the ports so bad from heat/detonation from pulling all that power/load at lower rpms---the loose springs could be a sign of that

And I do BBC, BBF and others also!!!!!

We started going strictly to stainless steel valves because even on heads that we had rebuilt we were seeing short life with regular valves. They were pulling into the heads. It added about $ 10 per valve to the cost, but we never had another comeback after doing that. Boats are just a totally different animal than cars, even though they are using essentially production line car engines in most cases.

Don

Do these look about right?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HR...n/?prefilter=1

yes the 98515 spring and i concur with my esteemed colleague . MR J Clayton . :D yes boats are not USED the same as car engines . boats are hard on Valve train . i wish i could say i did not know not one thing about boats.... BUT i work at a boat yard one of the biggest in mich over two miles long.. EZ 6 boats a day i work on from 17 foot to very big $$$. even lot of the cheap valves are a mix of alloys some what S steel the new Sbc are very thin from chevy new and most of the time the stock intake valve can not be re ground less you need a new blade to shave your face with. they sure will pull threw the head but if the springs are weak the best valve can go to cup

ok so I am really confused now.........
I did some research and reading and come to find out that I have rotators on the exhaust springs side.... Do I ditch these or run them again? Do you ditch the rotators and run the antirotator with the springs previously mentioned in the earlier post?
Also, how do I figure out what correct spring rate I need or is that not critical in my case? If someone could direct me to the correct part, Id really appreciate it.

THEM ARE STOCK SPRING S you have a stock cam ? use them just put them in .. . if your going to put a better spring in more for hi rpm them you would ditch the EX rotator eliminators how you want to do it thats up to you if your pulling the heads at the end of the year then that is time for the upgrade

What you are trying to do is just get a little more time out of the engine before you need to pull the heads and do it correctly. At that time you can decide what upgrades you will make, but for now just buy some springs like the ones you are looking at and put those in. I would just put them back the way they were installed originally to avoid any hassles. When I worked in the marine business we sometimes had to do things to buy a customer a little more time, until they could simply get no more use out of the old setup, then it was time to break out the checkbook.

You might consider just buying a set of something like World Product heads down the road as the cost of doing a good valve job with related upgrades comes pretty close and most times the aftermarket heads are superior in flow and performance. They also usually come setup for roller rockers.

Pat may have a different take on doing that, and he would know best.

Don

the heads you have are good heads the world O ports are very very heavy i not sure i would be to fast on the gun to ditch the old head casting i do not know what shop rate is like were you are so thats your call on new casting .if fresh water engine alum heads would be a good move loose some pounds and get a better head . it all money so ?

Are the World Products heads heavier than the originals, Pat?

Don

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Are the World Products heads heavier than the originals, Pat?

Don

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yes very much so there O port heads is one casting mold for there O port and rect port heads so the roof is about 3/4 thick iron on the O port head so this and the head has more iron over all makes for a very heavy head. were gm has two casting molds and the ports are much thinner on the roof of the ports, there is other things i have seen that i will not post on here so if you want to know more you will have to pm me

Hey thanks for the advise everyone. Yeah i went ahead and just did the quicky setup with new springs and all is good so far.
What heads would be a choice? Im looking to go aluminum?
Im leaning to just go up to a 496ci with a single holley.
Other choice that I like is to run a small blower. Ive got a buddy thats running one and it runs pretty strong. I think that if I get around 600hp I will like the outcome. Looks like I could build something that strong without too much expense.