Solid Rollers on the Street...

Hi All,

As many of you know I've taken a certain pride in driving my 11's street car to the strip. I knew the day would come wished I had I trailer... first time when I busted a rocker and a buddy offered to tow me with his trailer the next day then a couple weeks later when its apparent I ate some lifters... the baby's in the shop and I'll know the prognosis next week (unfortunately I don't have the equipment or wherewithal yet to do this at home :HMMM: )... Anyhow I'm pretty sure I lost at least two lifters and probably the cam.

Everything was new in May last year and I've probably racked up a little over 1000 miles street and strip...

The solid roller cam is great and turns out the power great but it's apparent the lifters weren't up to the task. Comp Super rollerss... Most the guys around here freshen their race motors every two seasons as for going over the top end and checking bearings and what not... but these guys aren't turning the street miles.

At any rate, I've learned everything needs to be double checked at least every season. I'm going to step up to direct oiled pressurized lifters, probably crowers (thanks pat :cool: )... I think I'll have the old lady talked into a new trailer and truck soon ;) we'll see...

anyways... moral of the story is a solid roller motor is more for racin' and less for cruisin' around (duh!). Check the valvetrain frequently and if you need to adjust the same valve twice take a good look at the lifters!

-Chris

Yup!!! That's just another reason I like my trailer!!!!! We freshen race motors every off season and check the bearings and do a leak down at least once a month......

There's a lot of difference in a summer's worth of laps at the drag strip and cruizin' all the time. The best engine for either occasion will not usually be the same engine!!!!

^^^ yup... I hear that... I tried real hard to have my cake and eat it... just a little too much tho...

-Chris

if my car had the stick in it id drive it ont he street a little more. that 4500 stalla nd event he new 3500 is just to dang much trans heats up to fast.

I`ve put a little over 2000 miles on my 37` this summer ....
full solid roller set -up in a 496" motor , so far I have not had any problems ...

hi scooter... yeah I have 4200 stall but haven't had much trouble with the tranny getting hot... even a hot day on the highway usually around 180 but up to 190* tops..

ratso - glad it's worked out for you so far... do you mind sharing what you're using? What lifters, springs pressures and an idea of the cam? Do you do any special machining to improve oiling to the lifters? like grooving the lifter bores? Any info will help...

I was using comp super rollers on a .630" cam seat pressure about 240-250# open pressure around 580#... cold lash .017 with aluminum heads

thanks,

-Chris

what oil are you using ? your cam is not that big i have used so many solid rollers over the 20 years on the street some in the 700 lift i have used the crane rollers lifters over the years i been lucky some day my luck will run out . i have pulled the worn out ones before they did any thing. i have rebuilt engines were they were not so lucky were the rollers and lifter pins were siting in the oil pan i have used the 1.625 iskyloy springs in both cars and other customers engines have used this spring many times it 240 @2.000 and well over 650 they work fine i know i have over 1000 miles on the blown 548 in the 50 chevy with crane rollers and the isky springs and 712 lift crane cam the the other engine were in the 680 lift and used crane lifters i have crower hippo that will be going in when i go thru the engine the gto has a 740 lift cam with the same springs and lifters you could look at the new isky red zone ez roller lifters with no needles bearing in the roller

I think if you are wasting lifters so fast they are not riding the cam correctly. Impact is what will do in the bearings in the lifters; are you using a rev kit to insure they stay down against the cam? Are all the components matched? Are they being lubricated correctly?

Yeah, racing is tough on parts but I would expect 10,000 mile, not 1,000.

Kitz

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Originally Posted by kitz

I think if you are wasting lifters so fast they are not riding the cam correctly. Impact is what will do in the bearings in the lifters; are you using a rev kit to insure they stay down against the cam? Are all the components matched? Are they being lubricated correctly?

Yeah, racing is tough on parts but I would expect 10,000 mile, not 1,000.

Kitz

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3000 at best or less with that much spring and you do not need a rev kit KITz:D

low speed and no oil spash is a killer and you need very good oil

Pat, are there some mods on the oiling system or the lifter bores to extend the life of the mechanical roller lifters on the street????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Pat, are there some mods on the oiling system or the lifter bores to extend the life of the mechanical roller lifters on the street????

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yes you can buy the hippo roller lifters that put oil on the pins or buy the comp tool that cuts a small groove in the bore or buy the red zone ez that do not run any needle bearings

thanks everyone for all the input... haven't been on much this weekend.

I'm running 10w30 Brad Penn Penn Grade 1 synthetic blend racing oil (it's GREEN :D )... no rev kit. Engine guy said we probably want to step up to 20w50...

Will not groove the lifter bores but going with hippo style lifters... my guy likes the red zones for the style of the bearing as mentioned...

I'm still in the queue and the old girl will be going under the knife (or wrench) probably tuesday. I'm hopeful the cylinder bores didn't get scored... I'm keeping my fingers crossed she'll be up and running before next sunday cuz I already ponied up $200 for a "high" dollar race on the 1st... I might be running my grocery getter :LOL: how about 20s SUV against 7s dragster?

-Chris

I've heard synthetic oil doesn't work well with roller lifters because it is so slippery the rollers don't roll, they just sit there and develop flat spots on them. Is there any truth to that?

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I've heard synthetic oil doesn't work well with roller lifters because it is so slippery the rollers don't roll, they just sit there and develop flat spots on them. Is there any truth to that?

Don

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Interesting... I hadn't heard that. I would like to hear if anyone has more info on that but I think most factory motors now are running full synthetic including all the hydraulic rollers from GM :confused:

-Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I've heard synthetic oil doesn't work well with roller lifters because it is so slippery the rollers don't roll, they just sit there and develop flat spots on them. Is there any truth to that?

Don

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the roller cam lifters can skid i have used strait weight 40 the brad pen state oil is what alot of guys use. the cam bore center line to the crank shaft main bore can be off making the lifter bores not true .making it harder for good tracking

BTW: I haven't heard my "I told you so" from jerry yet? I know both pat and jerry warned me back when I had my broken rocker that my lifters would be soon behind... :LOL:

-Chris

It is possible for the rollers to not roll anytime roller bearing friction is much greater than the cam/roller contact friction. This can definitely happen due to bad contact geometry or failing roller bearings. Seems less likely that it would be an oil lubricity issue but I have never seen any data to really back that up. Friction is based largely upon viscosity so I don't see a concrete reason how friction is that different between synthetic and dino oils with the same viscosity. However if you get into boundary layer friction other factors may apply. Confused, yeah me too. :LOL:

Kitz

I've run synthetic in all of my race engines since Mobil 1 came out in the mid 70's and never have had a problem of too good of lubrication....

Pat, thanks for the heads up on the Comp tool for the lifter bores!

Well, the jury's finally back and here's what we found....

one lifter complete failure lost all needles one other has loose roller but not as bad. Cam tore up but not as bad as I was thinking it would be. Chewed up two piston skirts real good and scored three cylinders (two worse than the other). Crank and bearings were okay but will polish as long as it's out...

Here's the plan:

I know it really should have a .010 bore but will just ball hone the bad cylinders (worst cylinder has .002 variance).

Polish damaged skirts with scotch brite... won't be good as new but should be okay(?)

New cam... my engine builder has an Isky in mind that's just a little bigger than the Lunati I was running before but I don't know the specs yet.

New lifters (Isky Red-Zone, pressurized oiling, no needles!), new rockers (Crower SS), new pushrods, new springs (240# Trickflow 1.550" direct replacement), new timing set (Cloyes double roller, same as before... old one stretched ~1"), new oil pump (Melling M77HV, same as before)

Replace windage tray with screen (?)

All told I'm expecting this will be $3k+ endeavor for what could have been ~$500 set of new lifters in the off-season... live and learn! I'll be switching to 20W50 from the 10W30 I was running before... I like the Brad Penn Grade 1 but might think about Royal Purple... I think it is less $$$.

There's a chance I'll be on the strip next weekend (???)... we'll see how it shakes out.

Cheers,

-Chris