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396
Hey everybody, im new to the forums and have a couple quick questions about building some power with a 396.
first off its a '70 nova 4 speed (auto) with 4:11's in the rear. The engine is the original 396 with edelbrock air gap manifold, Holley carb, longtube headers, and a flowmaster exhaust.
I have been reading up on the engine and the car, but figured i might have some better luck here.
-another concern is that this engine seems to be burning a little oil when its cold and right before it shifts. also the oil p.s.i guage reads 50, when in Park and stopped; but when in gear and stopped its just above 0 and increases with throttle.... im sorry if this is a stupid question but is that normal?
Thanks for the help in advance if anyone has any suggestions, or tips please PLEASE help me out.
thanks again
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What you need is one of those new ZZ572 crate motors, just slap that bad boy in there and youll be good to go....:LOL:
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ha yeah 572... i wish. Im 17 and trying to pour money into this car, and college at the same time and the car seems to be winning. :whacked:
Anyway as far as the motor - its in very very good shape, and runs beautifuly. Is there a specific oil weight you suggest? I just changed it recently and put in 10w-30, should i just go with detergent free oil? or maybe a 40 weight?
i checked out the actual gauge itself and there is a very fine clear hose running the the gauge face itself with oil in it and you can see it travel when the car is running. I dont think it a problem with the gauge.
ha and besides the 572 anymore performance suggestions?
thank you for the help so far
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You didnt mention the carb, if i was trying to pull out some X-tra hp from a basically stock motor on a budget and it was a 396, i would go with a Edelbrock performer rpm cam, or a cam close to those specs (nothing too big) and a set of roller rockers and if it didnt already have it i would get a 750 vacuum secondary on there. Holley of course. You already have a decent intake you mentioned. Maybe a little hotter coil also. That should wake the motor up a bit. Check Ebay out man, you can finde some really really good deals on big block chevy parts. just type in big block chevy and you'll get like 16 pages of parts. check it out. later,Joe
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what would that set me at, as far as power ?
- the bigger cam that is and roller rockers as well as the carb? just a roungh estimate.... over 450?
In all honesty i'd like to be in the 550 - 600 hp range. and id really like to do it with this 396. would i just be better off throwing in a bigger engine?
right now i really dont want to spend anymore than about 5k on parts.
anyway thanks again for all the help
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70 Nova,
Reality check here. If you have around $8-10,000 to spend then you can look at that kind of HP. More down to earth would be 350-400 depending on what HP the engine is already and the existing compression ratio.
I would recommend getting a Demon carb. They have a record of pulling more HP with the same or smaller CFM rating and better fuel ecomomy.
Check with the tech dept of Comp Cams and tell them what you have. They can make recommendations on the best cam for your application with out hurting HP. A cam can be too big.
One more thing. Think about drivability. An engine with 600-650 HP will not be very streetable, and won't run on pump gas.
Ed
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that specific 396 was supposed to make 375 hp stock- thats why i figure,in reality, 550 wouldnt be so far off. Or at least attainable without breaking 5 grand although spending more isnt a huge deal.
i just wanted an already proven combination of parts that would net me close to that number (on a budget).
wether it be naturaly aspirated or not
edit: Just posted some pictures too
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Personally, if it were me and I was looking at college expenses as you are, (Still paying for them for (and with) my son after 15 years and they don't seem to be getting any smaller) I would go with a set of roller rockers and a Demon Carb. You won't believe the difference you will feel.
If you really want to spend 5 grand, yank the engine, bore it .030 to 402, full roller cam and rockers, Demon carb and you could approach 425-450 HP.
You could purchase a stroker kit on ebay an build it yourself if you have the ability, or you can purchase a 502 crate motor. Lots of ways to spend money.
If you really do have a 396 / 375 HP, it is worth some money. You could sell it for 12-1500 bucks and put that along with the $5000 you supossedly have that could be used for college and buy a pretty nice crate engine.
I am just sitting here trying to put myself in your position and wondering why you would need more than you have at 17 years old.
I'm sorry, this board isn't for preaching on a soap box. I will get down now. Someone on here can probably help you more. Good luck,
Ed
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I saw this somewhere and dont remember where but the best way to put it is this : Speed is a question of money, how fast do you want to go?
what your looking at with a stock set of heads and stock compression and a little hotter cam and a nice intake and carb and a good tune up is maybe 400-450 horsies, maybe. compression is hp up until the point of detonation put about 10.5:1 pistons in there about .060 over with some good gas in there you might hit 500. maybe. oh yeah a good set of headers with a good exhaust.
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alright guys the help was amazing - tomorrow im taking it into Gratiot Speedshop where they are going to throw it on a dyno and see where im at. Then go from there. As far as the throwing the money at the car vs school, not to worry the college part is handled the money im talking about 'for college' consists of savings for beer money and other 'needs'. so i figure it'd be better spent on something constructive. again thank you for the help
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"tomorrow im taking it into Gratiot Speedshop where they are going to throw it on a dyno and see where im at."
:) this oughta be good.....stay tuned.....
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Hey, Tech.
How's it going ? I was hoping you would show up on this. I can't control myself. What's you opinion on this? You always have good answers. If he really has the 396/375 I would like to have it. Don't have a clue what I would do with it though. I have laid a lot of rubber on the asphalt with one in my younger days.:D
Can't say that I blame him though. At 17, everyone wants the baddest thing on 4 wheels.
70Nova, you said that you posted some pictures. I can't find them. What kind of shape is the body in? Is it worth an engine like that?
At my age I prefer people looking at the car with their tounges hanging out and drooling over the car rather than worrying about 600 HP. I mean, where you gonna go that fast at?
Ed
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tomorrow im taking it into Gratiot Speedshop where they are going to throw it on a dyno and see where im at.
Lol 250 @ 6600 rpm lol
Only kidding just figured id stir it up a bit.....
Let us know how it worked out, Later, Joe
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70Nova, the problem with making huge horsepower on the street is the available fuel today. If you're building a naturally aspirated motor (unblown), you have to use a very high compression ratio to make 500-600 horsepower along with a cam that is too wild to be streetable. If this were my motor, I'd pull it apart, cut the crank 0.010"-0.010", cut the bores 0.030" and use pistons that would yield about 9.5:1 compression ratio with the iron heads, have hard seats installed in the heads, zero deck the block and use a 0.035" to 0.040" head gasket. With a 750 carb, roller rockers and headers and a cam with around 225 degrees duration at 0.050" lift, you should be able to generate an honest 400-425 hp on pump gas.
If you're still thinkin' 500-600 hp, you need to be thinkin' blower or turbo.......
http://streetmachinesoftablerock.com...topic.php?t=81
http://streetmachinesoftablerock.com...topic.php?t=83
Ed, you need to take a couple of aspirins and lay down until the feeling goes away.....:LOL:
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ok good news and bad news. I made this dyno appointment like i dont know a week ago - i get there today and they tell me come back in 2 weeks..... what the hell?
anyway today was not a total loss i went to another speedshop and ran into a guy that owned the same car in highschool. I begged for some enlightenment and he schooled me for a good 3 hours on this car and engine. He then ripped the carb apart and tuned it as well as fine tuning the timing... turns out it was way off.
Needless to say now this feels like a completely different car.
i still need to find a dyno shop, so if anyone knows of one in MI that can keep an appointment... ha let me know.
as far as the pictures go if you click the little camera by my name it will show them....ha i hope. the car is in very very good shape it just had a frame off restoration and the paint and chrome was all re-done.
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As the owner of a Crate ZZ502/502, I highly recommend them. If you can sell your current engine, and put the extra 5k towards it, you will be a very happy man. This thing hauls a$$, and it's new, with all new parts, and a warranty. comes complete with everything except an air cleaner. Just bolt it up, and hang on:D
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sounds like a similar setup as we're running right now, a 1969 JH, that's a camaro 396 SHPE, edelbrock intake, with a holley 850 double pumper, and just recently dropped in a new MSD ignition coil and distributer. anyways, what I was just gonna suggest, was that you check your timing advance settings, and carb portings, float adjustments etc etc. i'd only assume a dramatic difference in feel before/after you had all that tuned. right now, we're running a 11.5 compression ratio and nothing too much for an exhaust after the headers :D .... I'd be interested in your Dyno test results... gotta get this bad boy in to dyno soon as well since all of the part replacement and upgrading we've been doing.
actually, i'd have to double check, but there may be 4.11s in the back end here too, not for long tho, wanna get that 4.88 12 bolt back in there real soon. I think the last time it was checked it was running 410~430 hp with this setup. and this is in a beast too, 56 Chevy 2 Door Sedan. if you had some tuning and tweaking done, running all that in a 70 nova? wow, there's a huge weight difference there.
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396
New to club hot rod, Have been running these short short motors for a number of years now. and could give you a few pointers on really making these little motors scream. If your still interested in reaching your 600 hp level and able to retain your streetability let me know. Been running a all cast bottom end 10.25-1 motor in our bracket car for over 7 years now 9.90's @ 134 MPH on alcky or 10.60's on gas at 126.
Bob
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We've found great results running these short stroke motors in our bracket cars. coupled with high stall converters the HP level will be as high if not higher than the bigger motors from 454 to the 482 ci level. we're buzzing these things to 7400 all with stock cast iron bottom ends and two bolt mains. Over the past 7 years I replaced the bearings once and if it had not been for already having the motor on the stand after looking at the first rod and main I would have just bolted it back together and let her rip.
We have inserted a light weight JE piston in one of the Motors with a .250 long rod to bring the piston weight down and raised the RPM to 7800.
Oval port heads!!!!!!! Open chamber over closed if you have them we've seen a 30 HP gain with the open chamber over the closed even with the compression ratio drop with the swap.
Look at the little things. when you fisrt unload a new motor combinition you have no idea what to expect. One case is where we had installed a new 396 combo in a 80 camaro and first time out 8.30's is all she went thru the 1/8 mile NO signs of a problem left the line clean EGT showed 1320 degree temp on gas. but with careful tuning the same combinition turned into a solid 6.80's or 10.90's car.
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I agree that the old 396's are getting scarce. I had one in my 55 Chevy in high school (70) and it was a 67 model. If that motor is tuned right it will put out tons of torque with little modifications. A highrise with one of the new style carbs (Demon is good) and a good set of headers should give a 17 year old all the power he can handle. I wouldn't get hung up on the dyno thing, this car won't handle 600 hp anyway without major drivetrain mods. Remember your dealing with a car that is 35 years old. If you do the minor mods, make it sound good, and do a restoration, you will be able to sell this car for big bucks. Then you'll have plenty on beer/pizza money. What are you doing drinking at 17 anyway? Maybe you should save that money for bail and fines. Sorry, don't mean to preach here either, just looking out for ya.
Don't get in a hurry and think it though, your on the right track by visiting speedshop and picking there brains. One thing I have learn in the last 50 years is to research, research, research before you change the car. Lay out a plan and stay with it.
Good luck and keep us posted, OK?
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Havent posted recently and thought id fill you guys in. since that first post i put a set of traction bars in, and am running a set of cheater slicks; obviously a huge difference in it hooking up. I added a tci ratchet floor shifter to the TH400, and a shift kit, and noticed a nice change.
It has a 3000 rpm converter and 4:10's and now being able to hook up and not hop and spin make a huge difference.
this car is really coming together nicely
O, and i brought it to my first show! It was really something seeing people so interested in this car. anyway thanks for all the advice